Jung raised:
A friend said to me, many of his older PLU friends advised him to get marry and stay in the PLU circle. He asked me, can or not?

If he asked me this question a few months back, I will say to him what a hypocrite you are and give him a verbal lesson :-P

But this time, my answer is WHY NOT?

Yes, WHY NOT, IF YOU CAN, I said to him meaning that if he can get arouse with a woman and have children and a normal family since he is the only child in the family.

There are many PLU guys who are having LTR with married guys too. Right?

Will love to hear points of view and advises from guys who have gone through or are going through such LTR and maybe your advices can be used as a guide for some people who need it.

I think when it comes to life style in our circle; it is very difficult to say which the best way is. Celibate? Single? Twosome? Threesome?

Hope to hear from married guys and those having LTR with married guys. Be generous in sharing your views, because many others are in the same situation I think.

Gibson disagreed:
Hmmmmm, I have no problem with either way, but I have one question, how long you can hide it from your wife? One day when she find hate the true, she will hates you more than you cheated her with another girl.

Friend of mine always told me, she never forgive her husband if she find out he is GAY, not because she hates gay (she is close with me), just because she cannot tolerance to share her husband with guys. Just a thought, no offense.

Darrel insisted:
When I read Jung's posting, a sense of deja vu sort of crept up in my mind. Some of the more senior members would probably still remember the very heated debate between some members regarding extramarital affairs with married guys.

I would just like to echo Gibson's sentiment, which somewhat mirrors my own sentiment as well.

I just want to make one thing clear here - I am not trying to judge which type of relationship is good or suitable for each person. Everyone here obviously is adult enough to decide that for himself as well as to shoulder whatever outcomes resulting from his decisions and actions.

Just one point. If we indulge in a relationship knowing very well that the indulgence would cause suffering to another person, then, it would be unskillful, unwholesome and bad.

It is well and fine if a gay man who decides to get married, provided of course IF HE CAN. But once married, he has to be responsible for the welfare of his wife and his children, because that responsibility comes with the choice and decision.

UNLESS his wife consents to his extramarital affairs with other men (which I think must be a virtual impossibility), then, any illicit affairs with anyone other than the wife would obviously be wrong.

We are talking about marriage here. And marriage comes with responsibilities. If you can't fulfill those responsibilities, then, better think twice before marriage, of course, unless you can live with the knowledge of being the cause of another person's misery.

While being gay is not a choice, how we live our lives definitely is.

Not being judgemental here. Merely stating a fact.

Eric Goh shared:
Coincidental enough, I just met a gay guy who asked me and my friend to introduce him a female friend to get married yesterday.

What is different from the scenario being discussed here was, most of the PLU we know deceive the wife or perhaps only found out that they are gay after married. But this guy, knowing well he is gay, had a gay lover for 4 years now, and yet he proposes to “marry for
convenience”. He is very rich and he is going to get married to make his family happy, as well as to show it to business counterparts during company functions. He will not hide from his future wife that he is gay and have a lover. The future wife will have to accept that he will continue to stay with his lover most of the time and must understand that there is no love in between him and her. He wants to have kids but will not sleep with her. She can enjoy part of his wealth and will have all her freedom to do what she likes include having a casual lover, for as long as it is not over the limit. The family and the future kids must not know that the mother is seeing someone else and the father is sleeping with another guy. They will have to work together to maintain their "family" and smile in front of everybody.

I find it really weird at the beginning as he offer this “marriage deal”. But come to think of it, isn't that quite similar to many of our older generations, where marriage was just an arrangement between two families? Some to the extent that parents would make such DEAL before their children were born! Man only sees who the wife was on the first night of marriage. There was hardly any love feeling. Marriage was simply a life long responsible or more in a ruthless manner, just a DEAL. And yet they live “happy ever after”.

If the Marriage Constitutions give the heterosexuals so much conveniences and benefits, why can't we? The gay people take a ride on it? I really don't know. I have a gay activist friend in Hong Kong , purposely married a lesbian and walked into the Marriage Council for registration with the press all around them. He wore a gown and she wore a tuxedo. They boldly challenge the marriage constitutions. You want us to get married; OK we get married but no love, just to share the benefits given to the heterosexuals.

Recently, I also re-watched the Japanese TV series “Alumni ...” something (in Chinese the series is called: “Tong Chuang Hui”). This woman who wishes for a happy and comfortable family lifestyle, as she was an unwanted child before, is willing to accept the husband is gay. She even read stories to her husband while he and his younger lover are lying on the other bed. She later asks if the two men want to continue to listen to her story or have sex. They say they want to have sex. She then offs the lights and turns her back to them while they have sex... and on other time, they show her masturbates herself...

People who are in love are not all ended up in marriage People who ended up in marriage do not necessary love each other. It's like giving a big slap to the face of those who honour marriage.

So what is marriage? A by-product of capitalism that defeats its original purpose? Must we gay people continue to fight and pursue for such defect system to get just a piece of recognition paper? Something to ponder, huh? :)


Hing Hoi narrated:
Eric, thanks for giving us enough to think what the best way is really. Reading Eric's posting about a gay guy who is looking for a future wife with all the “terms & conditions”, I suddenly remember a Thai TV program that I watched 2 months ago.

The TV program is called “V.I.P.” and they always manage to get special guess to be interviewed. That time, it was a gay in his early 20s, wearing a cap and sunglasses, going through a 40 minutes interview.

He told everyone that he was a bar boy and drug addict before and currently under the process of rehabilitation. His parents had divorced when his was still small and since then, he has been living with his father. He is quite smart and managed to get into a famous university, studying law. Like other gays, most of his closed friends were gay too.

However, instead of heading for his bright future, his life was twisted when he could not accept the fact that his 1st lover left him and he started to take drugs. Well, that's not the end of his story. He surprised everyone by revealing that: “MY FATHER IS A GAY TOO”.

His father was very skillful in keeping this secret from him until one day one of his friends visited his home, pointed at his father's photo and asked him, “Is he your uncle? I saw him in the gay pub a few times before”. Later, he saw, by himself that his father was hugging a guy at the pier waiting for boat. Since then, he refused to face his father, dropped his study and started to work as a gay prostitute. Both his father and drugs have pushed him deeper into this dark dead end. He just couldn't resist the feeling of being cheated and upset every time his father continued to pretend as a str8 guy by asking him: “Why all your friends are sissy and gay?”

Before the interview ended, he voiced up a question deep from his heart by saying, “Father, please stop lying to me and everyone. If you knew you are gay, why you still wanted to marry mum and took me to this world?”

We can set any terms and conditions based on our assumption that everything works as how we want. But I think we have no control on them and when something turns out wrong, even being responsible is just not enough to mend the damages that we have created.

Confronting the expectation of our family and society OR breaking the hearts of those who have no way out is something we need to think more than twice.

Tim Tom opinioned:
No wonder we have so many social problems in society; father ignores children and sleeping around with other guys. Hmmmm....perhaps this is how the gay community propagates its own kind? By ignoring the children...no father figure...they turn gay....

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