Jung asked:
What do all of you think? Or I think society will not be too "alarmed" of the presence of a manly lady in their crowd but a girlish guy will get a lot of frowns, even sometimes from PLU people themselves. Like some guys will say, sorry no sissy to be their friends.
Why so? Please pour in your views. Thanks.


Zemien commented:
I highly doubt so.

First is the misconception that lesbians are manly and gays are girly. I myself am very straight-acting (naturally) and I have gay friends who could not believe I am gay!

But besides that, I believe when the term "society" was used in Jung's message, he was probably biased to a male perspective. To illustrate what I mean, my straight room mate said to me the other day: [I have not come out to him]

"Hmm, I dunno if here [referring to our hostel] got two guys have sex together?" he asked.

I replied, "Yeah, sure got wan."

He monologued, "Aiyer, geli! I can accept two girls love each other la, but for two guys.yucks!"

I shook my head and kept quiet at his immaturity (that's why I didn't come out to him, not ready yet). As you can see, it is not so much as they accept or reject the notion of homosexuality, they only accept or reject the notion of gay people of their own gender. Again, Bern could probably go into a whole new thread on the different meanings of "gender".


Jung replied:
Zemien:
Old men have lots to think back. Anyway that is why a yahoo group for, right? To let threads sprout and hopefully many will be benefited. If people here just place their ads to find sexual partners! My god, I won't be here at the first place.

Bern declared:
Gender has only one meaning, well, the definitions may be varied to different social scientists but they are variations of the same theme. Anyway, it should not be confused with (anatomical) sex.

[They only accept or reject the notion of gay people of their own gender.] Perhaps what you mean by "gender" is, sex. It is just my opinion.

For some people, their gender accords with sex. You, for example, a straight acting (gender) gay man (sex), so I assume you have a pair of XY sex chromosome, and not a hermaphrodite. I also don't assume that you f*** the opposite sex (sex role) as part of your straight acting, but straight acting as what we generally know as behaving manly (gender role).

Anyway, our gayness (sexual orientation) is another story.

And yes, there are people whose gender does not accord with their sex, a butch lesbian or an effeminate guy for example.

Gender, sexual orientation and even one's biological sex is so diverse that at the end, a prototype of man and woman is only our imagination.

Keith revealed:
I watched straight porn before I could really enjoy gay porn later on. Most of the straight porn will have a part of two females "playing" with each other. And I suppose the porn producers know the market better than anyone else and hence they included this part. I always fast forwarded this part. Why? No men, apparently.

Well, obviously in the straight community, lesbian sex is acceptable. They (the straight men) can feast their eyes with what they are interested in. I am just referring to the straight guys but not girls, since I have no idea if straight girls really like porn stuff as much as the guys. I do not study girls either.

That's why Zemien's friend will feel "yuck" when it comes to gay sex. This is what they are not interested in. There is nothing for them to see, no pussy apparently.

Coming back to the topic, I do not think it is easier for a lesbian to COME OUT than a gay man, both are difficult. When a lesbian daughter tells her dad about her sexual orientation, the daddy will feel the same way as a gay son tells him that he is gay, although the dad likes to watch two females rubbing each other every night.

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